Meetings

PAC(4)-01-16 Paper 1 – Committee’s Recommendations

PAC(4)-01-16 Paper 2 – Update from the Welsh Government

PAC(4)-01-16 Paper 2A – Written Statement from the Welsh Government - Transparency of Senior Remuneration in the Devolved Welsh Public Sector (7 December 2015)

3.1 The Committee noted the update on the implementation of the recommendations contained in the Committee’s report.

3.2 Members agreed that the Chair should reply to the Permanent Secretary seeking further clarification on a number of issues.

NDM5664 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

The National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the Report of the Public Accounts Committee - Senior Management Pay, which was laid in the Table Office on 6 November 2014.

Note: The Welsh Government's response to the report was laid in the Table Office on 7 January 2015.

Supporting Documents

Public Accounts Committee's Report

Welsh Government’s Response

The item started at 15.04

NDM5664 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

The National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the Report of the Public Accounts Committee - Senior Management Pay, which was laid in the Table Office on 6 November 2014.

The Motion was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

PAC(4)-01-15 Paper 1 – Welsh Government Response

3.1 The Committee considered the Welsh Government’s response to the Senior Management Pay report, along with the Auditor General’s advice.

3.2 The legal advisor to the Committee was asked to provide a brief note on the Accounts and Audit regulations.

3.3 The Chair would write to the WLGA to ask them to circulate the report and the Welsh Government response to Local Authority Leaders.

PAC(4)-25-14 paper 3

7.1 Due to time constraints, Members were unable to consider the draft report. The Chair advised that the Clerks will seek their comments by email.

PAC(4)-23-14 paper 1

1.1 Members considered the draft report and suggested a number of changes. A revised version will be prepared for consideration at Committee on 13 October.

PAC(4)-18-14 (paper 5)

8.1 Member’s discussed the paper and noted that Clerks would prepare a draft report for consideration early in the autumn term.

8.2 The Auditor General for Wales agreed to prepare a document comparing the pay guidance for public sector organisations.

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 6)

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 7)

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 8)

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 9)

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 10)

PAC(4)-16-14(paper 11)

7.1 Members noted the papers and considered the evidence received during the inquiry. Members noted that the Clerks will begin to draft the report.

Research Brief

Higher Education Sector

Professor Colin Riordan - Vice–Chancellor, Cardiff University

Jayne Dowden - Acting Chief Operating Officer, Cardiff University

3.1 The Committee took evidence from Professor Colin Riordan, Vice–Chancellor, Cardiff University and Jayne Dowden, Acting Chief Operating Officer, Cardiff University on Senior Management Pay.

7.1 Members considered the evidence received.

Registered Social Landlords

Research Brief

Nick Bennett - Chief Executive, Community Housing Cymru Group

Elaine Ballard - Chief Executive, Taff Housing Association

Norma Barry -  Chair of Tai Calon

5.1 The Committee took evidence from Nick Bennett - Chief Executive, Community Housing Cymru Group, Elaine Ballard - Chief Executive, Taff Housing Association and Norma Barry -  Chair of Tai Calonon Senior Management Pay.

5.2 Nick Bennett agreed to send an analysis of the differences between the current charter on good governance and the draft code scheduled to replace the charter.

5.1 Members considered the evidence received.

Research Brief

Marie Rosenthal, County Clerk and Monitoring Officer, Cardiff Council

Delyth Jones, Head of Law & Governance and Monitoring Officer, Conwy County Borough Council

3.1 The Committee took evidence from Marie Rosenthal, County Clerk and Monitoring Officer, Cardiff Council and Delyth Jones, Head of Law & Governance and Monitoring Officer, Conwy County Borough Council on Senior Management Pay.

3.2 The Committee requested that the Clerks seek clarity on the proposed new Welsh Government regulations for elected members.

3.3 Delyth Jones agreed to send further information on the cross party make up of the Employment sub-committee at Conwy County Borough Council.

6.1 Members considered the evidence received.

6.2 Members asked that the Research Service and /or the WAO consider whether the merging of colleges has led to a step up in principals’s pay.

Research Brief

Mark Jones, Principal Gower College & Chair Colegau Cymru

4.1 The Committee questioned Mark Jones,  Principal Gower College & Chair Colegau Cymru, on Senior Management Pay.

4.2 Mark Jones agreed to send the following information:

·       Further detail on how the figures for St David’s Catholic College and Coleg Gwent were reached

·       What constitutes a ‘benefit in kind’

·       Latest benchmark report from the Association of Colleges

PAC(4)-10-14(paper 1)

PAC(4)-10-14(paper 2)
PAC(4)-10-14(paper 3)

Research Brief – Senior pay in the FE Sector

Research Brief – Levels of pay in the public and private sectors

Wales Audit Office Brief – Senior management pay

Legal Brief

Anthony Barrett – Wales Audit Office

4.1 Members received a briefing from the Wales Audit Office on two Wales Audit Office Public Interests reports, published on 30 January 2014, on Senior Officers’ Pay and Pensions - Carmarthenshire County Council and Senior Officers’ Pay and Pensions - Pembrokeshire County Council.

4.2 Members agreed to gather more evidence as part of the inquiry from monitoring officers of local authorities, representatives of FE and HE sectors and Registered Social Landlords.

7.1 The Committee considered the evidence received and note that the Committee was returniung to this issue on 3 April.

7.2 The Committee asked the Clerks to contact the Hay Group requesting details of when a lower remuneration has been suggested for a senior position and any examples of good practice in performance related pay.

PAC(4)-05-14 (paper 5)

Research Brief

Robert Oxley - Campaign Director, TaxPayers’ Alliance

4.1 The Committee questioned Robert Oxley from the Taypayers’ Alliance on Senior Management Pay.

4.2 Robert Oxley agreed to provide a copy of the Institute for Fiscal Studies Report on the public sector pay premium and also the article from the Local Government Chronicle he referred to.

4.3 Following the session, the Committee also requested that he provide a reference for his claims about the proportion of people earning between  £100k - £150k and more than £150k in Wales.

Wales Audit Office Memorandum for the Public Accounts Committee:

Senior management pay across the Welsh public sector

Welsh Government Written Statement: Governance and Scrutiny of Senior Officers’ Remuneration (4 February 2014)

Research Briefing

3.1 The briefing papers were noted.

PAC(4)-05-14(paper 5)

Sir Derek Jones – Permanent Secretary, Welsh Government

David Sissling –  Chief Executive, NHS Wales, Welsh Government

Peter Kennedy – Director of Human Resources, Welsh Government

7.1 The Committee questioned Sir Derek Jones, Permanent Secretary, David Sissling, Chief Executive, NHS Wales and Peter Kennedy, Director of Human Resources at the  Welsh Government on Senior Management Pay.

7.2 The Permanent Secretary agreed to send a note on the salary of the highest paid Director at Finance Wales, arrangements for accountability of performance and remuneration for senior officials involved in regional organisations and guidance issued to governing bodies on setting salaries for headteachers.

7.3 David Sissling agreed to send a note on the make-up of the NHS in Wales.

PAC(4)-05-14(paper 2)

PAC(4)-05-14(paper 3)

Anna Freeman – Director of Employment, Welsh Local Government Association

Jon Rae - Director of Resources, Welsh Local Government Association

Richard Tompkins – Director of NHS Wales Employers, Welsh NHS Confederation

5.1 The Committee questioned Anna Freeman and Jon Rae from the  Welsh Local Government Association and Richard Tompkins, Director of NHS Wales Employers, at the Welsh NHS Confederation on Senior Management Pay.

5.2 The WLGA agreed to send a list of salaries paid to chief executives in English local authorities, data summarising how Welsh local authorities are comparable to local authorities in England, variance between senior jobs in local authorities (eg Director of a department) and information on which local authorities use a performance related pay system.

5.3 Richard Tompkins agreed to send a note on the amount of protection paid to former senior officers following the health board reorganisation in 2009.

9.1 The Committee considered the evidence received and agreed to re-arrange the session with the Taxpayers Alliance.

PAC(4)-05-14(paper 4)

Robert Oxley - Campaign Director, TaxPayers’ Alliance

6.1 Due to adverse weather conditions, the witness from the Taxpayers Alliance was unable to attend. The session will be re-arranged.

PAC(4)-05-14(paper 1)

Peter Smith – Hay Group

4.1 The Committee questioned Peter Smith from the Hay Group on Senior Management Pay.

4.2 Peter Smith agreed to send data on tracking of local government pay in England and the timetable and terms of reference of the review the Hay Group are undertaking for Finance Wales.

PAC(4)-32-13 paper 10

10.1 Committee noted the draft memorandum from the WAO and that further work is required on the paper before it will be published in the public domain.

10.2 Committee discussed how they wish to focus their work on this inquiry.

PAC(4)-28-13 paper 3

7.1 Committee noted the paper and agreed with the suggested witnesses.

5.1 The Committee discussed the scope of its inquiry into Senior Executive Pay.